I think i might agree on some points u highlighted in your entry.

if both sides know that this relationship is to be ended by marriage, I think they totally have the right to get to know each others. Still though, it can be quite hard for them to 'predict' their relationship's future -- but I think they can know whether it's serious or fooling around.

I personally appose the relationships where daters just do it because 'it should be done' to some silly environment standards. That's unacceptable, a guy can cause a wreck in the girl's life and still he gets to date more. And I mean in our Jordanian society.

omar

I do not think it is wrong for people to get to know each other. I mean, my wife and I got to know each other. But being Muslim and not wanting to do haraam, we got to know each other over the phone, 8 hour plus phone calls, over e-mail, and visiting her house with her family in attendence.

There are ways to do things without "throwing the baby out with the bath water" as the saying goes. It would seem some people want nothing more than the social scene to be another America. Well, that has its draw backs as well.

Rape, pregnancy, sexual disease. That all comes with the "dating" package. As long as there is still some stigma attatched to it things like this are kept at a minimum. When it becomes "accepted" practice to do these things it will be time to start having free clinics for abortions, birth-control, get shots for sexual transmitted diseases, if you are "lucky" enough to catch one that can be cured or doesnt kill you.

The whole "dating" scene is a failure here in the US, where there is nominal equal rights between men and women. It will fail in a culture like that of the Middle East. If you are a woman, expect to get played left and right, then find it impossible later to marry because all of the men will instead go for your sister in hijab, who might or might not be cleaner than you are.

Then expect your daughters to be treated awful by their fathers, because the fathers know what they did to the girls they were dating but dont want it done to their family.

Trust me, I have been there done that. Dating is completely overrated. Besides, they have done studies here in the USA that show that if you date/have sex with/ or live with someone before you marry your chances of marrying that person and have the marriage last are very small.

The results were clear, going the "clean" way to get married was the best way to stay married. Messing around before marriage, your chances of getting divorced are much higher.
Jordan is a Muslim country, lets keep that in mind. Lets search for better, cleaner ways to meet and get to "know" people for marriage.

This doesnt have to be a choice between having your parents finding someone for you that you've never seen and sleeping with everyone you meet until you find the "right person".

Some middle ground please?

I can't wait to comment on this! I'm so glad you picked up on it, Khalidah!

As a practicing Muslim i have to agree with my brother Abu Sinan here.

To add however, it is a bit of a farce to assume people in Amman are dating to get to know each other for marriage. In the majority of cases I would say this is untrue. In the majority of cases I would say it has become a dominant culture amongst teens influenced by movies and tv. The intention is to have relationships, as many as possible in an attempt to "practice". Whether it is sexual practice or practicing how to sweet talk and what not. They are after the experience.

So rarely have I seen people "hook up" with the intent of marriage. Many of them only say that's their intention to other people because its become a sort of "competition" now that such and such couple are going to get married etc.

Amman is now submerged in the industry of love and relationships. Gifts and dates and inevitably it will shift further to the left.

This is not to say I am against getting to know someone for marriage, however there needs to be a middle ground like Abu Sinan said. His approach to marriage should be the more prevalent and not going to the corner of a cafe to smoke argeelah.

also, i like what Omar said. Many of these young daters feel that Amman is exclusive from the rest of society and in a sense it is its own bubble. But a bubble that is easily burst by the forces of a greater society. In other words dating can be brutal to a woman's reputation in Jordan. We still live in a place where a woman unmarried by a certain age is looked at strange. but young men and women, especially of my generation and later, are ignorant to many realities and the consequences of dating. They feel by going out to the cinema will have no adverse affect when in reality it really does. They do this like Omar said because it's the "thing to do". And all your friends do it.

btw, good topic khalidah

Fantastic post Khalidah! I absolutely enjoyed reading it. What I love most about your posts is that you discuss all the issues that I'd love to discuss but never get around to doing it, so I'm so glad to see that a Jordanian women shares her opinion, which in this case the same as mine, with the world.
I personally do not find anything wrong with dating, regardless of whether marriage is the prospective or not. You live and learn, you know? You learn about yourself, your life, and you mature emotionally.
It's all good...

Interesting article Khalidah; nothing like context to put light on what is otherwise a non-issue for some of us. I don't think of dating/not dating; I can't imagine marrying someone I didn't get to know beforehand. What I do think of sometimes is the extent of the dating depending on the context. E.g. how fast/slow adults let their reklationships progress, what age people start allowing their kids to date, how much faster & deeper kids here seem to jump into it, etc.

Yes, breaking up can cause so much heartache and pain, but that's life; no pain, no gain. What matters is that the individual is well-rounded, with enough self-confidence/esteem to make the right decisions for him/herself. And this of course depends on the family environment that the person was raised in (another big issue altogether).

Have to disagree with things Abu Sinan said:
<<Rape, pregnancy, sexual disease. That all comes with the "dating" package. As long as there is still some stigma attatched to it things like this are kept at a minimum.>>
Actually, Rape, pregnancy, and sexual disease are part of the life package everywhere including the Middle East. It is erroneous to indicate that these things do not occur outside dating or that dating results in an increase of such. That there is stigma attached to dating there does NOT mean things like this are kept at a minimum. If anything, they're more likely to occur in repressed social surroundings although they are less reported/publicized than in more open societies.

<<The whole "dating" scene is a failure here in the US, where there is nominal equal rights between men and women. It will fail in a culture like that of the Middle East. If you are a woman, expect to get played left and right, then find it impossible later to marry because all of the men will instead go for your sister in hijab, who might or might not be cleaner than you are.>>
Overly sweeping generalization; even if you are referring to people of Middle Eastern heritage living in the US. I assume that's the grp you refer to. However, the dating scene anywhere could be considered a failure anywhere if there are hypocrites involved; I can't see any positive outcome when you date someone that inherently believes that the person in hijab/otherwise conservative outlook = looks more chaste = better than you. Who really wants to end up with someone like that?

Sorry to triple-post Khalidah, but your comment form is set to accept only 2000 characters max, so I had to divide my response after typing!

Abu Sinan said:
<<Trust me, I have been there done that. Dating is completely overrated. Besides, they have done studies here in the USA that show that if you date/have sex with/ or live with someone before you marry your chances of marrying that person and have the marriage last are very small. >>
Don't know what studies you're citing, but practically everyone I know across several continents dated before marriage & this includes people from my parents' generation, most of whom are still together. So that makes such studies bollocks from my perspective. Anyway, I think its an accepted fact that here in North America, for every study on intangible issues (things that can't be absolutely measured), there is/will be another study "proving" just the opposite. So I wouldn't believe something just because it is published or because I heard it being mentioned without examining the circumstances/facts used.

What I can say for sure is: In such an open society, the chances of a marriage lasting if anyone is unhappy is less because each person has the right to request a divorce and there is little/no stigma attached to being a divorcee here. Obviously, in repressed societies, there is much less divorce because of the stigma/repercussions, so more people live in otherwise dead marriages because they have no viable alternatives.

Also wanted to add that I agree with Roba:
there is nothing wrong with dating that does not end in marriage. What matters is the approach, i.e. learning about yourself and maturing emotionally versus just doing because others are or using it to mask other issues you might have, etc.

Because you decide to date someone does not mean he/she will be "the one". Yet you have no way of knowing what he/she is really like until you get to know them.

Geekette said:
"Don't know what studies you're citing, but practically everyone I know across several continents dated before marriage & this includes people from my parents' generation, most of whom are still together."

What Abu Sinan was trying to say (as far as I know) is according to the saying "If you get the milk, who needs the cow?". We're looking here at many different types of "dating" or being in a relationship. As he stated, that dating which includes sexual relations might not lead to a commitment such as marriage. I don't know how you look at it, but from my point of view the purpose of the Holy marriage is to share this relationship in a legal frame according to our religious teachings. I know many guys who are believe to exprienced so, and they don't even THINK of getting involved -- I think it could be like "Hell, she slept with me -- she could've sleep with anybody" and injustice labelling begins. It might be not right, but it's there and it exists.

Geekette,
what you said about rights to request for divorce...etc etc is somehow right. I would still disagree that it only exists in 'repressed socities'. You're also making a huge generalization here because in so many cases it doesn't happen. So many mothers just keep up to sacrifice to their sons, and it's not a matter of shame to them anymore.

I don't know if I made my point...

I wonder how many people in jordan read viva magazine.
i think dating is a bad idia.

Posted "Also wanted to add that I agree with Roba:
there is nothing wrong with dating that does not end in marriage. "

If you are a Muslim it is wrong, full stop. I have nothing against getting to know each other. Heck, visit each others house, in company, for years if you want.

But dating, alone and unescorted will almost always lead to things, that as Muslims, we should avoid.

If you are saying basically, forget what Islam and religion teaches us, and go do what you want, that is fine. But, if you are a practicing Muslim then dating is clearly out of bounds, just as it is with traditional Jewish and Christian sects.

"Getting to know each other" can mean a lot, it can mean very little. It can justify a lot, and very little. There are those that claim you cannot really get to know anyone until you live with them, have sex with them, you name it.

I guess there is a bit of truth to that. But at the end of the day you have to decide how much your religion is going ot play in all of this.

If you want to be the typical Westerner who dates, has sex, lives with their boyfriends and girlfriends and then claims to be "Jewish/Muslim/Christian" then have at it.

Dating is incompatable with any of the three monotheistic faiths. If you want to water down your religion like those in the West, feel free, but call a "spade a spade" so to speak.

If you are going to date, what next then? Drinking? I mean, if we are going to throw Islam out the window, why stop at dating? Of course when it comes time to pay child support to the children born out of wedlock, of course everyone will be talking about the "Islamic duty" of the men to support their children.

This is a slippery slope, and it seems many out there are already at the bottom of it.

Khalida,

In fairness to the big picture, one should also read the excellent piece by Jane Galt:
<a href ="http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/001575.html">Can the West Seduce the Arab World with Our Dating Culture?</a>

for lazy readers, here are some essential excerpts:

"Arabs don't have arranged marriages just because they're mean, sexist bastards; there are reasons that they arrange things the way that they do..[..] Specifically, arranged marriages take place in societies where the extended family is both the basic social unit, and the basic economic unit[..] Extended families perform a lot of highly necessary functions, such as social insurance, emergency health and child care, employment agent, and a hundred others. In countries with low per-capita incomes, especially countries where government corruption is high, it is not possible for the government to provide all of these services at adequate levels for several reasons.[..] In the case of those who assume that choosing your own spouse is an unalloyed good, they are failing to understand the complex system of obligations that accompanies marriage in a society where extended families form the primary economic and social support"

I personally support dating (and I've dated my share), but i love the saying: "with great freedom comes great responsibility"

Khalidah thanks for writing about this :) I have personally tried to write about the dating scene in Libya and how things are handled , whether in secret or out in the open . It is interesting to know that in Jordan we have similar issues.

I think it is important that the two know each other before marriage!
So dating is a good thing, if it has good intentions and is not in secret. So if the alternative is not to date and have an arranged marriage, then you start seeking other lovers (like your previous post Khalida) if you find out s/he is not the right one, I think dating is the safest and best path.
I think it depends on the community you come from. Abu Sinan I don't see how religions are against dating (innocent, in public). Marriage is not a reversible process! It is really a one way ticket, so you better be careful before you jump in. You see, an unhappy family will lead to unhappy kids, and frustrated kids will lead to a crappy society, which explains a lot why we are still a 3rd country! The guy got married because his family and society at that age expect him to do so, and the girl who just finished school or University is obliged to get married so young so no one would start rumors and call her a ho. The result? The guy soon enough realizes his life is miserable; he can’t really have a normal conservation with the girl (kid) he got married to and same for the teenager girl who is fantasying about this perfect ,pure romance but the male thing next to her is the opposite of what she was hoping for! So she becomes a baby machine producing kids and increasing poverty levels in Jordan thank you very much!

So let them date, find what they really want! If you are concerned that dating will lead to adultery, then hey, arranged marriage is doing worse, what’s the kids fault?
Well at the end it depends on the community you hail from! So if you come from a culture that tells you whenever a man and a woman; strangers to each others are alone under one roof the devil is their third companion urging them to get busy, then dating seems wrong, and I have to respect this believe, even though I don’t agree with it.
Other wouldn’t really care what happens behind closed doors or open ones. Others tell you dating is healthy if it has good intentions and is not secret (his/her parents know you), if you have a strong faith you wouldn’t commit an act to violate your religious teachings.

*I had to cut the post into two halves...keep uo the the good work Khalidah.

Although I agree that responsible dating can add a lot to the emotional maturity of both males and females but I wont be talking about dating because I know that its wrong in Islam and this is unnegotiable. Just wanted to share an idea I heard for Amer Khaled in one of his lectures to young people. Mr Khaled talked about the effect of dating on people later when they are married, which is so true, how each party will compare his /her spouse to the girl/boy friend they had. While you get to see only the bright side of your date "especially in our society where they dont live together" you will share the good and bad with your spouse, so a small part of you will keep comparing and this will definately affect your marriage.

Firas writes "Abu Sinan I don't see how religions are against dating (innocent, in public)."

What is "in public"? Are you saying that people who date would do nothing more than attend events together in public? Do you think so? So nothing else happens that isnt in public? This is just not realistic, it is not truthful.

I guess it does depend on where you come from, but for me where I come from is from an Islamic angle.

I am not saying, like hardliners do, that you should not even see your spouse to be. But what is wrong with spending time with them, getting to know them, in situations where you are not going to end up doing things that you should not?

I knew my wife very well before we married, but I had never been outside alone with her at all. I spent all sorts of time with her at her house, amoungst family. We went out, again with family. We got to know each other very well in months of e-mails and phone calls, some lasting 8 hours and more.

What did we really miss that someone going out on "dates" would have gotten? Nothing, except we did things right, in a way that kept us from doing things we shouldnt, or even feeling tempted to.

Dating will almost always lead to the types of behavior that are bad for the people involved and bad for society. You lot supporting dating seem to think it either has to be dating or arranged marriages, it doesnt. Find some middle ground, get tech savy. Heck, you are on a blog after all.

There are all sorts of marriage sites on-line where you can meet other people, expressly looking for marriage, and then get to know each other in a clean manner.

I think dating is more about trying out something new, kind of like a new pair of shoes. If they dont fit, then just wear them for awhile and get a new pair. This "disposable society" is an import from the West that is

I am an American, trust me, for as much as many of the young want to live like we do here in the West, take a look at the downside not only the cool fun stuff you like. It doesnt come apart, it all comes together.

Firas writes "if you have a strong faith you wouldn’t commit an act to violate your religious teachings."

But dating is squarely against Islamic teaching. Do we forget the hadith where the Prophet(PBUH) says that "Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third"

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari, Book 25, Number 5403, Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As

So dating is clearly outside the bounds of Islam, and always has been. The question here is more about whether or not this matters to the people talking about dating.

Firas writes "Other wouldn’t really care what happens behind closed doors or open ones. Others tell you dating is healthy if it has good intentions and is not secret"

Not anyone interested in their deen Firas. No one who is interested in their deen would advocate dating. Even if you are doing it yourself, have some sitra, dont try to get others to do it as well.

Seems here is that we have the ultra-liberal who dont even really take religion into account, and those fanatics who want to force it on everyone.

The way is right down the middle, that is what Islam is all about, the middle path. Seems most people have forgotten that.

Interesting topic Khalidah. I think the idea of "dating" is a very broad one. From what I understood through your post, your not referring to dating that includes sexual activity. I don't think this type of dating is as prevalent in the ME as it is in the US, for example. I think if we begin to "accept" the idea of dating, however, there is a fear that the young and immature will succumb to and suffer from these 'experiences', as well as the old and mature for that matter! In the end, each person will decide for themselves, but society encourages and discourages certain trends, and I would rather that Jordanian society discourage dating because there really are no limits to what it can entail. However, I do see the need for mature individuals to meet with one another and get to know each other if they are serious in their intentions. Otherwise, too many people will get hurt and the girls in our society will be the most ones ill-affected by this because of the type of mentalities we have, which you clearly mentioned.

Amazing discussion, I adore the amount of comments and thoughts shared in this place and in this regard.

Naturally, nobody wants to marry Mr./Ms. Anonymous. It's tricky trying to get to know people for who they really are, at times people know each other for years and when they eventually settle down (if that's what they want to do) they discover they weren't right for each other after all. Sometimes they know each other for a couple of months and then, for the rest of their lives they live together.

Abu Sinan has been making very important and solid points. I agree with him.

On the social side it's easy to get fooled by what people tell you is "OK", you later on discover these things are not really OK and that you are labelled for life, if you're a girl. It's very unfair, but it happens. Fighting that explicitly, trying to prove a point, will give you more headache than results and will most probably have you tagged negatively for ages to come. I do not see it going anywhere. If you want to play it smart, act smart.

Excellent post Khalidah!

Omar: <<what you said about rights to request for divorce...etc etc is somehow right. I would still disagree that it only exists in 'repressed socities'. You're also making a huge generalization here because in so many cases it doesn't happen. So many mothers just keep up to sacrifice to their sons, and it's not a matter of shame to them anymore.>>
I never said anything only exists in repressed societies. What I said was that there is more stigma/repercussions attached to being a divorcee in restricted/repressed social environments, therefore, there is much less divorce (especially those initiated by the female).

Abu Sinan: <<If you are a Muslim it is wrong, full stop. I have nothing against getting to know each other. Heck, visit each others house, in company, for years if you want … But dating, alone and unescorted will almost always lead to things, that as Muslims, we should avoid.>> ... <<Dating is incompatable with any of the three monotheistic faiths.>> ... <<Dating will almost always lead to the types of behavior that are bad for the people involved and bad for society.>>
The three monotheistic faiths were all influenced by their historical settings and the cultures in which they developed. Their writings may include various views on sex and marriage (subject to individual interpretation), but none of them explicitly state that their adherents should not date. Dating does NOT "almost always" lead to bad behavior, but erroneous attitudes do. Just as lots of people date & have sex, lots of people date without sex. Neither is necessarily "bad".
As any individual following any faith including Islam, it is your duty to fully investigate/read up on the facts of your faith for yourself, taking into account the historical setting, cultural influences, etc. rather than just accepting whatever you're taught. Many things are subject to individual interpretation by the reader including Islamic scholars. The prophet Mohd (PBUH) may have been chosen, but he was also mortal, a man, therefore fallible.

Abu Sinan: <<If you are going to date, what next then? Drinking? I mean, if we are going to throw Islam out the window, why stop at dating? Of course when it comes time to pay child support to the children born out of wedlock, of course everyone will be talking about the "Islamic duty" of the men to support their children. This is a slippery slope, and it seems many out there are already at the bottom of it.>>

Funny you mentioned slippery slope; you are using that very fallacy of argument to make your point here. I don't see how dating throws Islam out the window, neither do I see how dating automatically equates to the person necessarily picking up other habits like drinking. I also don't see how dating automatically equates to kids out of wedlock (its a completely different topic, but I consider a global duty for any many to support any child of his, wedlock or not, given that he wasn't forced into sex without prevention/contraception).

Abu Sinan: <<Do we forget the hadith where the Prophet(PBUH) says that "Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third">>
So the devil must still be there even with married couples! Unless we missed the press release where devil stated that he would only choose to sneak upon single people... ;)

Peep this: Say someone steps into a room of 3 people, dances, then leaves. If we ask each person to describe what happened, the central theme (i.e. that someone came into the room) may mentioned each time, but each person's observation will inevitably differ slightly, despite the fact that all 3 were in the same room. This is because they're human, fallible, therefore given to their own subjective interpretation of the same event. Likewise, if the prophet had been another man or even a woman from another country, his/her records would have differed in tone/delivery because he/she is human, therefore subject to current cultural influences and individual interpretation of any messages. A caliph's record of what the prophet may have said to him about messages from God is then twice removed and again subject to that caliph's personal interpretation of what he recalls. You also show your subjective interpretation because the hadith you mentioned above does not explicitly state that leading single unmarried couple alone will lead to sex, neither does it explicitly state that people should not date, but you say it does.

So, just because something is written does not mean one should not challenge or take the full literary and historical context of the record into account. However, your interpretation of a historical text does not an absolute truth make. You do not believe in dating but that doesn't make others who do wrong.

Personally, i wouldnt get myself into the dating alley... But thats not because i agree on traditional methodes, but i simply think dating is a failing relationship building methode.

I totally agree that people should never marry before knowing each other well (ok,ok, what i really think is that marriage should not never happen at all, but thats a totally different issue)... But dating is not the best way to go; I would vote to the friendship model!

The reasons are complex: i will not go into my unconventional views on relationships, so i'll give this one simple reason that most people would understand:
Dating involves pressure on the evolvement of emotions, so it distorts the free evolution of emotions; On the other hand, the friendship model gives both time and space needed for emotions to well-develop and leads to much stable well-understood feelings on both sides of the coin...


I think dating is just a quick dirt alternative when one doesnt want to invest time or effort in maintaining a good healthy relationship! Sure, thats not to make over-generalizations;

Firas said: "Abu Sinan I don't see how religions are against dating (innocent, in public). "

dear, dating is not innocent by definition! most people just say the word dating without really knowing what it means...
Dating is (strictly?) going out with the intent of having sex later on.
Otherwise it is simply "seeing eachother";

But i know, most people arent aware of that and use the word 'date' because they see it in films as Nas suggested!!
Surely this is a 'dictionary' arguement not relevant to our jordanian sweet-hearts (for the biggest part, some do aknowledge dating for its true meaning)..

I have several Jordanian internet friends who all happen to be guys. I'm learning alot from the female side from your blog. Keep blogging! :)

Ah, globalization The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence! Here Arabs are considering the merits of dating while conservative Christians in America have started this new thing called “courtship”. (They think they invented it, but essentially, it’s pretty much exactly what Abu Sinan and my Arab Christian friends have done. Just google “I Kissed Dating Goodbye”.)

Your post raises so many good questions. First, “a man can go out on many dates; has many relationships before he is ready to settle down, but when he is ready; he goes after someone who does not date or whom he met in a family gathering or something of the sort.” Pay attention, ladies. If the guy is not ready to get married, why is he dating? For entertainment. Or pleasure. Or fun. If a guy is looking for entertainment, he’s going to look for a certain type of girl. If he’s looking for a wife, he’ll look for a different kind of girl? Why are we surprised when he’s finally ready to marry that suddenly his standards change? (To be fair, I’ve seen women do exactly the same thing.)

Don’t mess around. Don’t date if you’re not ready to marry. Don’t date someone who you know you wouldn’t marry. It’s just about being a decent human being. There’s no need to play with someone else’s heart for your own entertainment or self esteem.

There are so many advantages to being in family situations (like Abu Sinan describes) when dating. For one, parents are good at spotting when one or both parties are not interested in marriage and are simply carrying on for entertainment’s sake.

As a Christian, I also agree with Abu Sinan that spending time in family situations cuts temptation down to manageable levels. We’re supposed to flee temptation, not flirt with it.

Well, there’s more I’d love to say, but I’ve got to run for now…

Ah, globalization The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence! Here Arabs are considering the merits of dating while conservative Christians in America have started this new thing called “courtship”. (They think they invented it, but essentially, it’s pretty much exactly what Abu Sinan and my Arab Christian friends have done. Just google “I Kissed Dating Goodbye”.)

Your post raises so many good questions. First, “a man can go out on many dates; has many relationships before he is ready to settle down, but when he is ready; he goes after someone who does not date or whom he met in a family gathering or something of the sort.” Pay attention, ladies. If the guy is not ready to get married, why is he dating? For entertainment. Or pleasure. Or fun. If a guy is looking for entertainment, he’s going to look for a certain type of girl. If he’s looking for a wife, he’ll look for a different kind of girl? Why are we surprised when he’s finally ready to marry that suddenly his standards change? (To be fair, I’ve seen women do exactly the same thing.)

Don’t mess around. Don’t date if you’re not ready to marry. Don’t date someone who you know you wouldn’t marry. It’s just about being a decent human being. There’s no need to play with someone else’s heart for your own entertainment or self esteem.

There are so many advantages to being in family situations (like Abu Sinan describes) when dating. For one, parents are good at spotting when one or both parties are not interested in marriage and are simply carrying on for entertainment’s sake.

As a Christian, I also agree with Abu Sinan that spending time in family situations cuts temptation down to manageable levels. We’re supposed to flee temptation, not flirt with it.

Well, there’s more I’d love to say, but I’ve got to run for now…

For sure I didn’t read all the comments but thanks Khaleda for this post you made my day. Here what I want to say:
For the post address for my parent means to die or not to die so you choose!!!
My dad is nagging us to get married and you cant imagine the circumstances really, he opened up the subject yesterday when my sister asked him about something and wanted to go with her friends, what was his answer: (I don’t have spinsters girls go out from home!!!!) by the way she is 23 and ME 26!!
I said "elli min eedo allah yzeedo" so he looked at me in that look, I told him do u want loai to come and propose coz he is the only one see us (loai our neighbor he is married man with two kids) & continue saying where are not going anywhere so how do u want us to get marry!! Then I told him that last year two guys proposed and I said NO, do u know why!! Coz I don’t know them and I can't go for a date to know them better!!
For me marriage is the second important decision in my life so I prefer to stay at home and not to marry the wrong person and live again my parent life.
I talked so much here. But I have to say everything in my heart!!!
Now about the dating iam with it for sure but not two of us alone, this is wrong for me, anyway its better to go as a group coz u will know each other better and you will know how he/she deals with people because he/she can't lie in front of them. But in our days dating is for the sake of having fun. Am I right here???
But at the end we can't date for sure coz it's forbidden at least in my family& it depends on the society where you live.

Thanks Khalidah for a lovely article.

I definitely encourage people to date, regardless of the country or religion, it is a basic human skill that needs to be practiced and improved. What I mean here is – not going to the extreme – dating would open the aspect of knowing how your partner in specific thinks and behaves, in general it will help women to understand men and visa versa, so such an interpersonal skill that gets developed while dating will get us understand the meaning of having a partner and knowing that not everything that shines is gold yet it also gives us the experience to learn that no one is perfect, but we will be more living, tolerant and accepting that loved ones – I mean here your partner – can changing on the emotional and psychological side. So tell me if you never date and having minimal contact with the opposite gender would you have the same experience to handle troubles that any relationship will bring. Can you handle such issues without refereeing to your family and friends?

I believe dating, barring in mind not to go to the extreme side of dating and be society aware person, would improve our skills in knowing ourselves in areas we never touch down or explore on daily basis, as well as it will improve our chance of finding the right person and raise a good family through tolerance and knowing that one should keep holding the other’s hand in intricate times and this only comes through experience.

First of all... LOVELY TOPIC :)

I personally am with dating.

Dating does not always end up with marriage because at the end it is naseeb. Dating ( if done based upon respect and boundaries) is useful. yes useful!! even if you dont get to marry this someone atleast you tend to know what the OTHER gender is about. What they like, what they want. With dating you get to know what YOUR own criteria are. What you are looking for. It is not a matter trial and error, but you get to know what you really want from the other gender. Understanding what the person is really like is very important for a better future life with him/her. Let's simplify thing, how many friends have you had from your gender? some of them were good some of them were disappointments, it is the same with dating: if it doesnt work out then hey you learned something in life.

Unfortunately, there is very weird thing that goes on. Dating is associated with love, and love is associated with physical attraction. I personally refuse to associate these three together, because once they are combined trouble occurs and all what happens is the BAD side of dating.

Controlled and serious dating is what I encourage. Otherwise, dating is just a bad phenomenon that has terrible effects on people. Dating isnt BAD even when it is hidden!!! most of our parents are strict, and dont allow it yet we all find a way to manage to see someone!! The real challenge is really to understand why you are dating??!! and how!

That's it for now :)

If dating worked, if it provided a solid ground for relationships, there wouldnt be 50%+ divorce rate here in the USA.

Leave religion aside(if you must), from a practical standpoint there is no proof that simply dating works.

The idea of "getting to know someone" is a joke. You never get to completely know someone until you live with them, sometimes not even then.

"Getting to know someone" can and does mean many things. Heck, whilst we are at it, one doesnt know if you are even sexually compatable with someone until you actually do it, so why not try that out to see if you want to get married in the future. That is how it is done here in America.

I think, in the end, a firm basis in religion is what helps keep people together. As a Muslim, I have always believed that what starts out right will end up right. What starts with a proper intention will always work out in the end.

If you go with the plastic, throw away culture that says if it doesnt work, dont try to fix it, just get a new one, dont be surprised if your marriage ends in divorce. This is what dating is all about, try it out, use it for awhile, if you dont like it, get a new one.

If you all are going to look at the West take a look at where such activity has gotten us here.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on dating!

This message is for Firas and Naano since I couldn't get a hold of your contacts...

I'm the Editor of VIVA Magazine who wrote the article 'To date or not to date' for our March issue. After I read your comments on Khalidah's blog, I thought it would be a good idea to include some of the comments (a mix of views) in our "Your View" page, which will appear in our April issue. I am writing to ask permission to reprint your comments. Could you please email me at vivaeditor@alfaridah.com.jo

Thanks,
Laura

Rape, pregnancy, sexual disease. That all comes with the "dating" package.

Excuse me? I normally try to ignore you, Abu Sinan, but I cannot let this one go. How many women have you reaped on dates? How many women have you gotten pregnant, on dates? How many women have you given sexual diseases to, on dates?

I'm older than you, I spent 6 years in the US Marines travelling all over the world, and I've dated a lot of women.

I answer all 3 of those questions witha 0, and I assume you do the same.

So, what are you basing this outrageous comment on?

Dishonest, man. Dishonest.

Abu Sinan,

If dating worked, if it provided a solid ground for relationships, there wouldnt be 50%+ divorce rate here in the USA.

Nonsense. Christians have dated for 2000 years. High divorce rates are something new - in the US the divorce rate was negligible until the early 70s.

Divorce rates have nothing to do with dating, they are a product of societal and cultural factors.

I expect better from you, Abu Sinan. You're holding yourself out as an expert on dating because you are an American convert to Islam, but you're making a lot of disengenious arguments to make invalid points.

Please leave the US out of it, and leave Christianity out of it. That's not the topic of discussion, is it?

Devil's Mind,

Dating is (strictly?) going out with the intent of having sex later on.

You need a new dictionary.

Otherwise it is simply "seeing eachother"

Actaully, "seeing eachother" implies a romantic relationship, and is a more serious term, than "date" which can be nothing more than going out to dinner, once.

For your edification, here is the dictionary definition of the word "dating" :

#6 An appointment: a luncheon date with a client; a date with destiny. See Synonyms at engagement.

#7
1. An engagement to go out socially with another person, often out of romantic interest.
2. One's companion on such an outing.

<a href="http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/date;_ylt=AsBmx7xodwx_80LE83lAlZ2ugMMF">Yahoo! Education</a>

As you can see, it doesn't mean what you say it does.

Craig: The two quotes u took from me were definitions given by cosmopolitan magazine... sure comopolitan's definitions are not absolute definitions, but guess they represent a large portion of the 'dating' community

Devil's Mind, Cosmopolitan magazine is not an authoritative source on what words mean. You portrayed your statements as coming froma dictionary, and said everybody who thought different was wrong.

Craig , I totally respect your view, but reading back in your posts shows that you are apparantely not familiar with our society and whats acceptable here in Jordan. Islam is the religion of a big portion here ..and I was thinking ..Would I go and post what I think in a blog discussing marriage traditions for Hindus in india...hell no

naano, I have not posted my opinions about what muslims should or should not do. I've debunked some dishonest claims about word definitions and the nature of dating in the US.

Which makes me wonder why people think it's OK to tell outright LIES about other countries and other cultures that they apparrently know nothing about? Isn't that what you just accused me of?

I've said nothing about Jordan, or about muslims. I've defended my country, my culture, and my language, and my religion, from attack.

Khalidah, dating and parents, bad match.

Its not like Webster has more authority than them... (Literal meaning of the word is not all that important)

In most contexts, sex and dating are closely related... Its just "de-emphasized" especially here in Jordan to make it look more innocent... And sorry, i am not here talking of absolute truth, its just conventions;

hey ! y offended ?..no one is talking about USA , english language or christianity here. its just that some consequences of dating in USA and all over the world cannot be acceptable in our society.