I really think people are unable to define virginity. If we go by the norms and what people think then God is not JUST or FAIR.
In my book if a girl has been kissed from a boy, both of them lost their virginity. I do not think there is a physical mark that proves or denies virginity and those who think so are fools.
But again that's my own input in this topic.

Khalidah, I'm really glad you tackled this subject, I was planning to do so myself but you beat me to it, and you did a really really good job of it too!!! I love how well written your posts are.

One thing though - you mention towards the end that we live in a culture driven strictly by traditions and religion, and while that is true, I believe that this matter in particular is a problem in traditions and social misconceptions - if religion was being considered correctly, then ideally both men and women would be abstaining and there would be no need for this horrific 'medical' procedure based on lies. The double standards you speak of are, unfortunately, implemented by society. Makes me mad!!!

well given the fact that we've been "opening up" our societies recently to become more aligned with the western model or paradigm, specifically with regards to male-female relations...give it a few years and the virginity issue will no longer be an issue; merely a thing of the past.

if truth is so painful.. we shouldnt dig for it,, why should we seek for pain,,, this is a normal result for "opening up" as NAS said..

I respect your point of view Khalidah,, but i your post is something like "how we should resist or reject this issue" with its new factors,, while i think it should be "how we should deal with and accept it as a part of our life"

im not saying "its ok" whether a girl is fake or not... virgin or not... but deep inside,,, i know that when I get married "la sama7 allah" ill think of my wife as a "fifty-fifty" virgin.. with a strong denial for the "bad-fifty"

being realistic.. thats what we actually need,,

the key word of this post is "double standards"

this is an endless argument topic in our society,, like asking a man,, who has a GF..

do u accept you sister's BF??

oh my god... its a another tough question :P

I agree with Palforce.

There is a scripture from Song of Solomon (the sex book of the Bible) that says 3x "Don't awaken love before it's time". One can choose to allow love (and lust) to slumber until the appointed time - it is a mental choice.

Sex-centric societies, whether the West in it's excess or the East in it's suppression, both focus wrongly on the subject.

This is for both sexes. There is a ton of living to do above the waist. If young people could subliminate all that sexual energy, putting it into projects to help feed and clothe and house the poor before they are committed to their own growing families...what a difference could be made.

And self-less giving like that, actually prepares one to be a better spouse.

its a real conincidece that i posted about the very same topic just yesterday: http://zeidspex.blogspot.com/2006/04/opinion-if-i-were-girl.html

but, naturally, its probably a very different point of view from where u see it!
Or maybe not so different; i dunno!

I guess you're talking about a thing that we all know but never addresses.

In our society, it's not that every man is a playboy, the problem is: every man dreams of becoming one. Men who sleep around but still want their future wifes to be angels are so many, actually they are not even welling to marry a girl who they just made her lose her virginity because they believe that if she accepted that, then she doesn't deserve to be the mother of their children!

I second abu 7amarneh totally,

I must say that arab women who lose their virginity are "not wise", I don't know how this will sound, but, there are many ways to fool around and still not lose your virginity.

Well, I'll put it this way...If a man isn't a virgin, he shouldn't expect his wife to be one. Also, if he's been playing with himself, he has no right to expect her to be a virgin since a woman could easily "pop her cherry" while playing with herself (just as Devil's Mind said he would do if he were a woman). Yet men are lucky, especially circumcised men since with circumcised men, you can't really tell by looking at it, if it has been in use or not. It's possible to tell with an uncircumcised one, but interestingly enough, a lot of women don't know this. Whereas in many societies, women are given this extra burden: the hymen must be in tact. So apart no fooling around with anyone else or even yourself. Riding a bike might even present a risk. Some stupid people may even say that tampons should be avoided...
This is obviously an issue of the ever-present "Madonna-Whore complex"I suppose that with guys who expect their wives to be untouched, it's an ego-trip to "boldly be going where no man has gone before". Another ego-trip to be the one to teach her "how things should be done"... So basically, God forbid she has experience and God really forbid that she has more experience than he does. My response to a guy who was in this situation (having doubts because the woman he was in love with was more experienced than he was) was: "She's had all kind of fun and still wants to settle down and be with your boring ass? Be thankful!"

I wrote an article about this a while back:

http://www.globalcomment.com/society/article_17.asp

I was pissed off as hell and still am, as an unmarried non-virgin who's comfortable with her choices.

***"She's had all kind of fun and still wants to settle down and be with your boring ass? Be thankful!" ***

LOL. I should tell that to my boyfriend, haha. At first I thought that my previous experience might be an issue, but he's man enough to accept me for who I am.

Interesting info Beti. I totally agree with you on the "a man should expect the woman to be as experienced as he is"
Great post Khalida

Men who sleep around with women out of wedlock; if you are so free and have no problem in having intimate relationships with women, why do you insist on having a virgin wife and leave the others that you soiled to deal with the consequences?

Well written Khalida and extremely courageous once again, to cover such a sensitive topic.. This is an issue I often discuss w my sisters, however, none f them chose to go Arabic with thier men!..hmhmh Wonder why!

I think Arab men have lost most of their battles and struggles in politics, in culture, in freedoms, in economy and they want to hang on to the last frontier which is the "honor" related with women virginity. I think honor should be associated with honesty and achievements but for losers it is all about the female body. I think the best answer was written by Kinzi who said that losing virginity is not "wise" for women since the implications are high. I do not say it is "wise" for men but the ultimate test for a man to prove his love is not to ask a women for sex but to respect the value of sex in love being in the framework of marriage.
And let me get a little bit nasty here and say that losing virginity is not wise since "sexual enjoyment" can be attained without losing virginity for both men and women!!

Sexual preference should be a personal choice; external pressure to keep or to lose virginity is never healthy. Period. I would welcome the day that all Arab women can decide these things for themselves, without every Tom, Dick, and Harry (or Mahmour, Kareem, and Abdullah) giving an opinion. ;)

i second Natalia here, and disagree Batir Wardam!
I mean, a couple should not feel pressure not to have sex because other people will judge them!! There is nothing wrong in having sex, the shortcomings come from the society that represses it!
Claiming that "submitting" to social pressure is "wise" is misleading; The only person you are denying is yourself! The wiseness is not to submit helplessly, but to fight tactically.... I guess :S

Isn't a very shocking issue as you hear about it everyday! It is sad to where our world has come.

Hala2 if a girl plans or wants to loose her virginity, then it is up to her! and she should KNOW what she is doing!! ya3ni.. by having a surgery she is only contradicting herself and pretending she is something else!

Hala2 the guy who married a girl who pretended to be something else ( ALLAH LA YRODO) honestly it is not only the girl's fault!! the guy should have known better!! I cant beleieve that people still get married without knowing each other!! ya3ni if he was ignorant enough then he deserves it!!!

I'm not trying to justitfy this shameful act not the stupidity, foolishness, and carelessness of the girl. All am trying to say is that if you want to do something with your life then choose a path! and for all the guys out there STOP letting your mom choose for you! try to pick out what YOU want! some men are actually OKAY about marrying a woman who is not virgin!!

We cannot stop social pressure since it has always been there and will always exist!

I think I have deviated a bit!!! :)

HELP!
http://neverland82.jeeran.com/archive/2006/4/41046.html

With this, it is the attitude towards sex that I find so perturbing. Again, it brings into question the justification of a few people deciding how everybody else must live.


Its easy for a specific viewpoint (however discrimminatory) to permeate different levels of society without people even realizing it because it comes from a sector of society that dominates the rest. Khalidah, I'm sure you'd describe yourself as being pro-women's rights, but you just echoed a typically double-standard-male view with this comment:
<<women who choose to sleep around out of wedlock; if they are convinced that what they are doing is wrong, why do it in the first place and then run around seeking a surgeon to restore her chastity?>>

This comment implies that a woman having sex before marriage equates to prostitution/being loose as "sleeping around" means tons of sexual partners. But as you pointed out, lack of the almighty hymen on their wedding night could lead to their deaths. So they are not necessarily convinced that what they are doing is wrong, they just don't want to suffer/die, therefore they resort to bizarre procedures out of pure fear . Scary to think of women who may have lost their virginity through other physical activity like sports/bike riding but suffer/die because their husbands did not "see"/"feel" proof on the wedding night.


Khalidah: <<Girls sleeping around before they get married and lose their virginities to men that are not worthy; they claim that they did it out of love and because the guy promised to marry them; blah blah blah.>>
Within this is also a large group that cannot be overlooked; those who had sex before marriage for whatever reason (eg adventurous, wanted to experience their own definition/choice of "love" before ending up married to someone chosen by their family, etc) and are fi

Khalidah: <<Girls sleeping around before they get married and lose their virginities to men that are not worthy; they claim that they did it out of love and because the guy promised to marry them; blah blah blah.>>
Within this is also a large group that cannot be overlooked; those who had sex before marriage for whatever reason (eg adventurous, wanted to experience their own definition/choice of "love" before ending up married to someone chosen by their family, etc) and are fine with it. Would they have felt the need to do so in less restrictive circumstances? Maybe not. The attraction of forbidden fruit is strong, but weak when it is no longer forbidden.

One can't really blame it on the West because the West did not necessarily teach sex before marriage. What the West may have communicated was the possibility of questioning who/what defines you, your value in society, and why. This shift in thought is what is most frightening to some in repressed societies (especially to conservative clerics, male chauvinists, etc), not the semantics of sex itself.

As some are suggesting, where does virginity start/end and who is the judge that decides that? And what qualifies that person to be the judge? Are deciding to keep your virginity because you truly feel so or because you've been taught/ordered to by a patriarchal society, because its what "good girls do"? Refraining from vaginal intercourse while engaging in other heavy body contact is acting out an oxymoron because technically speaking, masturbation, oral sex, or touching of any erogenous zones are all forms of sexual intercourse. To me anyway. Which is why I find the extreme importance/pressure assigned to conventional "virginity" quite absurd and unfortunate.

You have spoken out my mind in this post; I can never say it in a better way!

In our societies its ok for the man to sleep around with many women before marriage because he can hide that forever and maybe he doesn’t need to hide it because he is a MAN and he has the right to do anything at anytime!
But women can’t do that before marriage because the wedding night is coming someday and the Honor of her family will be lost with the white sheet!

I can see that our religion is not taken in consideration by people in this issue, they forget that in our religion it’s the same fault for both even if the man can hide it and the woman cant.

We are soooooooo Shallow!

To everyone who likes to label "All" Arab men as hypocrites:

First, are you with or against Pre-marital sex? If Yes, are you practicing it? If yes, then I would respect you. Otherwise, you have no business agreeing with all of this.

Second, simply labeling Arab men, or all men as such is silly and hypocritical. You have friends who are not just men, but Arab as well. You chose those friends because you think they are reasonably intelligent, respectful, enlightened and worthy of your respect. If you don’t think that all your guy friends fit that description, then you would be the hypocrite.

If you truly believe that all men are so, this means that this is how you see your fathers, brothers, …etc If not, then you don’t have any business agreeing with this.

Finally, I think you will all agree that a slightly intelligent guy will be able to figure out if a girl has been kissed before. Some skills don’t just come naturally. But, if we are talking about all the half witted guys out there, then there's a lot worse they can affect us with that we can be discussing than marrying a patched up non-virgin.

In the end "الطيبون للطيبات, و الخبيثون للخبيثات"

Wow, I am an alien, or maybe you guys are living in another planet?

It’s interesting how some comments were recommending some solutions for the virginity issue, you know like oral or anal sex. Is this the new prospective for sex in Jordan, or you guys are just watching too much porn.

I just can’t wait to see someone recommending Weed instead of Heroin, because it’s less damaging.

whaaaat!?!
i really cant believe u people are still discussing whether the whole thing is right or wrong!
religion?!ever heard of that?!!!
dont u trust that?!!???

***dont u trust that?!!???***

Uh, no. Or is everyone commenting here required to follow a particular bran of spirituality?

Palforce, This is an interesting point of view and I find myself inclined to believe it .. because as you say .. there is no single evidence that proves these things did not happen .. so people should spend some time and think about this .. thank you

Hala, yes unfortunately; cultural aspects play more of a major role here than religious ones .. therefore; and in order to cope with our surroundings and try to avoid the drastic consequences .. I guess you can say that we should bend in the face of the wind till it passes .. not until enough people change individually that we will start seeing some changes in the core of the culture .. let's just work on making this change positive rather than negative!

Nas, I agree with you and that is why we should work on positive changes .. even the west are rethinking about these choices and more people are joining the chaste groups and maintain their virginity till they get married .. funny how we are heading in the opposite direction!

Abu 7amarneh, I think that accepting this as a fact is a sign of weakness in us .. my post is about how low we have sunk to .. and that people should think more about their choices .. and how to defend these choices if they are so convinced they did the right thing ..
I am with you that double standards shadow everything else .. but this does not mean that we should accept the wrong just because we can't face it or change it!

Kinzi, you are right about this becoming an obsession ... and I think that we are capable of making better choices that are compatible with our culture, religion and that are better for us on the long run

Devil's mind; I guess it is different after all .. because I don't see the whole thing worth the risk and there is a risk .. that is of course besides the point that it is wrong and perceived as such by religion and culture .. two things that cannot and must not be ignored or overlooked in our society .. but again! this is my own opinion!

OmAr, it is all about choices .. if one chooses to ignore religion and culture and still go ahead with their decisions, I think they should be brave enough to defend it and stand up for it .. they are fooling themselves by doing something and running away from the consequences by trying to fix the damage and move on with a lie as their life foundation.

Beti, thank you for your comment, however; I am not trying to preach that men should accept this and be thankful for it because they were chosen .. what I am trying to say here is that women and men should be responsible for the choices they make and lose the double standard in evaluating things .. keep in mind that the culture is different .. ours reject these things .. although more for women .. but the fact is .. it is wrong for both of them from many aspects and the consequences are way too much to ignore ..

Natalia, as I said to Beti above; the culture and surrounding circumstances are completely different so obviously cannot be judged or treated the same ... you are a single non-virging woman because you can afford to be in your community and you can be comfortable with your decision .. however; in our communities, even those who make the choice cannot afford to be comfortable with it because of all the reasons mentioned and that is why they go to extreme measures to fix it .. we cannot assume that it is only about the woman making up her mind wheather to lose the virginity or not .. it is far bigger than that

Omar, thank you for the comment .. again .. this is a subjective issue and cannot be evaluated the same way wherever we are ... I hope I am getting my point of view clear

Lina, LOL
Double standards is definitely your answer ... Arab men suffer from this and the funny thing is that they won't even admit it!

Batir, exactly
But I think you agree with me that the whole issue is not about whether or not to do it .. it is the fact that people (men and women) make decisions and try to run away from the implications and consequences .. when will this ever stop?

Natalia; it is not about women making a revolution to have the right to do whatever they want! This is an issue that God gave us guidelines for, and it is not Mahmoud, Kareem or Abdullah that are stopping women from losing their virginity or having sex before marriage .. it is God, period!

Devil's mind, I can't say that I don't admire your rebellious nature, however; not all issues can be treated the same way .. there are some things that require us to be more careful even if we don't want to take religion into account .. because if we are convinced that something is right, does not mean that everyone else should see it the same way .. that is why we need to know what we are dealing with before jumping in the fire and then try to avoid not getting burned ..

Ramroom, you do have a point .. but we a lot of time to reach a stage where we can be comfortable with who we are and who everyone else is .. until that time we will see many things like this!

Geekette, as I mentioned in my replies above; it is not people who are governing this or telling us what to do .. it is God .. and the issue is not about whether or not to have sex .. it is about the choices themselves ...
Communities differ in the measures and standards they go for in judging anything and we cannot ignore that doing such acts is a risky thing in our culture that is if we ignored the religious teachings ... I am one who defends women all the time and that is why I am talking about this matter because women are playing with their bloods her .. it is not as easy as making the choice and forgetting about the world .. again .. much bigger than that!

Hala/7ala, exactly ...
Not only religion is being overlooked, but people are not realizing that it is wrong for both men and women and if any decide to be indulged in doing the wrong thing regardless, they should at least be brave about it and dont run from the consequences!

Laith; who are you addressing with this comment? Who is talking about men's hypocricy?

First; It is obvious from the comments that some are with and some are against, however; majority of Arab men practice pre-marital sex but won't marry their partners in the act .. they go for someone who is "supposedly" chaste and with a pristine past .. I guess that is why we think they are hypocrites!!!

Second, if this part of your comment is meant for me, yes I do have friends who are men and Arabs as well, and yes I think they are hypocrites if they fit the profile described above and I let them know it .. Their choices in how to lead their personal life does not make them more or less my friends .. we share good relations and they know where I stand as they know where I stand .. I don't think that this fits hypocricy profile ..
If the comment was meant for every one else .. they are free to respond.

Yes, if my father, brother, uncles or all my male relatives fit the profile, I believe that they too are hypocrites and also I let them know it .. again; this is my response if the comment is meant for me

Finally, you are taking only one aspect of the issue here .. men and women are in this together .. if this intelligent guy was not a hypocrite to begin with, he wouldn't know how to kiss either .. bust since he does know the difference; he has no business judging her for being like him!

Sam, I guess the point has been missed here and that we are not talking about doing or not doing .. it is the whole thing in general .. but people got creative in providing some solutions for those who want to go for it and yet dont risk their lives .. I guess!

dozz, people are doing these things already and that is what we are discussing .. proof that this is happening is the surgery that is becoming so popular in all Arab countries .. so it went beyond just religion .. although I do agree that if people did everything according to religion, we wouldn't be having such problems!

Natalia, no this is not a requirement .. you are more than welcome to share your point of view at any time .. in fact you are encouraged to do so .. please don't stop visiting and commenting :)

a quick question: how do people in jordan feel about rape and girls who've been raped?

Laith,

Girls make sergeries to hide thier past, and to fool thier future husbends, do u think a girl that was kissed before will let her husbend realize it? I don't think so, she would act as a complete fool and that smart guy will never figure it out! anyways some skills do come naturally!

Hi

I think everybody gets what he/she looks for at the end. Those who chose to do it ought to face its consequences, fair is fair regardless of their genders. I can't see no point of debating double standards in this topic because the whole thing is odd with respect to our oriental culture.

Men and women are equal in Jordan assuming that our culture is deeply rooted to Islamic teachings as God in the Quran said:"الطيبون للطيبات, و الخبيثون للخبيثات" & "الزاني لا ينكح الا زانية أو مشركة...."

Debating silly acts in the name of human rights is even pathetic!

7ala: Unfortunately yes , we are so shallow indeed.

Khalida: Men are good , beleive me :)

SAM: Exactly , your comment just hits where it hurts :)

***This is an issue that God gave us guidelines for***

Depends on which guidelines you're reading, my friend. :)

Salam to all,
This is an excellent topic for discussion. To start with, if two people are joined together in marriage and plan to spend their lives together, then ultimaltey it should be based on trust. If there is a case where a girl looses her virgnity, then why marry a man that would not accept that mistake? Obviously this is a wrong or unsuitable match. If it is an arranged marriage, I can see how this would be a problem, because if she is honest with him, and he wouldnt accept that , then not only will he refuse to marry her, but ruin her reputation.

Another point i would like to add, that one of the people commented that Arab men are not obssessed with this issue. Unfortuantely, they are. However, I believe the coming generation are more open minded on this issue.

Also, it was said that the article looks up at womwn liberation by sleeping around! I dont think this was the point. It is funny how the commnet is made by a male. It is not about twhat women do or not do! it is about how men view and judge what they do. I am talking about men who do sleep around and then act out as the virtuous husband by asking for a 'clean pure virgin wife'. Many women accept their husband to be a past sleep arounder, so why can the men? I am not claiming that it is right to sleep around, but if that is the case, which so many are..

I reject virginity as physical. What is in your heart is the measure of virginity for me. In fact, since we're on the subject, I hope I don't ever marry a physical virgin, if her heart is not clean.

Signed:
Who needs another Virgin

Khalidah, my comment is actually not addressing one specific person, or else I would have named him/her. It is merely a reminder that one should be careful and do some reality checks before starting to label and generalize as not to fall into the trap of contradicting oneself in the future.

I know it is very hard for most people to stop and apply their judgmental mentality to themselves before throwing it out there.

This topic is a typical case where people start forgetting that virginity is not only physical. This makes it easy for them start judging everyone left and right based on that understanding.

I wanted to comment that the restriction on premarital sex amongst arabs is primarily CULTURAL (i.e. Jordanian), not religious, as I was raised as a Christian. Even after renouncing religion altogether, I still feel it is important to remain virgin, not so much out of a fear of eternal damnation but out of respect for my future wife and family. As with anything, a strong marriage must unvariably begin with a strong foundation.

I have read all these comments but i realised one point hasn't been talked about yet. I do believe remainig pure for your wedding is a wonderful thing, but i strongly believe this is a matter of personal decision too. But, what people usually forget is that times change and nothing remains the same. The social virginity rules have been made in times when people married before their twenties, and it was relatively easy to controll yourself until you married, but now, when economy of many middle eastern countries puhes marriage ages up, it is rather exagerated to preten for a man OR woman to be virgin at 28, or 30.It is not even healthy to stay so. Besides, love knows no rules, true love implyes pure feelings, not necessarily a pure body. I met people who were not virgins, but who had a far more beautiful heart than those who were virgins. I think a man should try to know a woman's heart and to love her for what she is, not make a big deal of her body. It is really a much too major issue over a little tissue.

I have read all these comments but i realised one point hasn't been talked about yet. I do believe remainig pure for your wedding is a wonderful thing, but i strongly believe this is a matter of personal decision too. But, what people usually forget is that times change and nothing remains the same. The social virginity rules have been made in times when people married before their twenties, and it was relatively easy to controll yourself until you married, but now, when economy of many middle eastern countries puhes marriage ages up, it is rather exagerated to preten for a man OR woman to be virgin at 28, or 30.It is not even healthy to stay so. Besides, love knows no rules, true love implyes pure feelings, not necessarily a pure body. I met people who were not virgins, but who had a far more beautiful heart than those who were virgins. I think a man should try to know a woman's heart and to love her for what she is, not make a big deal of her body. It is really a much too major issue over a little tissue.

I think these are wonderful comments, Lulu. I came back to this post, because I mean to link to it for an article I'm writing. It's heartening to read such a human-centric response to the issue of virginity.

The issue of hymen is perhaps misunderstood, for it can be broken even for a woman who hasn't had sexual intercourse, hence the Middle Easterners need to be educated not to have this reconstruction.

Lulu above suggested that remaining virgin or not before marriage is a personal choice. For Muslims it isn't a personal choice. Both men and women are not to engage in pre- or extra- marital sex or kissing.

Thanks Natalia :)I really hope people will actually get to see this is the only way to concentrate on more important things and to make a difference between love, which can surpass every obstacle and body, which it is natural to degrade in time.

And for the sane voice from Pakistan, you are right for Muslims it isn't a personal choice...unfortunately. Look, i am not Muslim, but in my religion too it is important to stay virgin before marriage. Still, times have changed and not necessarily into worse. People are starting to learn that there are other indicators for the value of a woman, except for the simple existence of a membrane. And a woman can be the most virtuous in the eyes of a man who's in love with her. I really don't believe that a man who is crazily in love with his new wife, will allow she will be killed just for the fact she didn't bleed. But if he puts his foolish pride and ego above the value of her life, then he might accept her being killed. This tradition used to last in my country too, but democracy changed it and people started to know better. They realised this patriarchal practice didn't bring them a better marriage life or a better life in terms of not worrying about the next day. And good they did. I predict the same for the Middle East. I admire the culture there. It is amaizing, so much history, and everything they brought to the humanity. But stop taking women for granted. A man who has had premarital sex has no right to pretend virginity from a woman. Sorry, just my opinion. I once read a young muslim girl's call fir help. She was about to get married and she was terrified of the fact she might be one of those unlucky girls who won't bleed on their wedding night. Is that the way you want your women to feel? Terrified??? Where is love or happiness in expectation for the wedding ceremony? Wake up people!

Thanks Natalia :)I really hope people will actually get to see this is the only way to concentrate on more important things and to make a difference between love, which can surpass every obstacle and body, which it is natural to degrade in time.

And for the sane voice from Pakistan, you are right for Muslims it isn't a personal choice...unfortunately. Look, i am not Muslim, but in my religion too it is important to stay virgin before marriage. Still, times have changed and not necessarily into worse. People are starting to learn that there are other indicators for the value of a woman, except for the simple existence of a membrane. And a woman can be the most virtuous in the eyes of a man who's in love with her. I really don't believe that a man who is crazily in love with his new wife, will allow she will be killed just for the fact she didn't bleed. But if he puts his foolish pride and ego above the value of her life, then he might accept her being killed. This tradition used to last in my country too, but democracy changed it and people started to know better. They realised this patriarchal practice didn't bring them a better marriage life or a better life in terms of not worrying about the next day. And good they did. I predict the same for the Middle East. I admire the culture there. It is amaizing, so much history, and everything they brought to the humanity. But stop taking women for granted. A man who has had premarital sex has no right to pretend virginity from a woman. Sorry, just my opinion. I once read a young muslim girl's call fir help. She was about to get married and she was terrified of the fact she might be one of those unlucky girls who won't bleed on their wedding night. Is that the way you want your women to feel? Terrified??? Where is love or happiness in expectation for the wedding ceremony? Wake up people!