khalidah..I couldnt read the articles because they are scanned and the font is really small. Can you send them to my email in a bigger version?

Check them now basbos .. I hope they work .. let me know if they dont and i will send them to you

Tried reading them too, couldn't because of the small font size.. The first page though was no problem!

WHOA. =| I don't believe it. The magazine was distributed in Amman? I am surprised that someone thought it was ok :S.

I'm from KSA (just down south) and publishing an article about bisexuality is NO WAY

I believe in freedom of speech as well. So, if one Arab country starts, maybe it will have a nice domino effect on the rest? Maybe that's too ambitious?

Hey Khalida,
Thank you for posting these images, however i must say that even though i'm all for free press and freedom of speach, i would see how such articles could have raised protest amongts the jordanian street, and maybe even did harm to the magazine especialy the "tale of forbidden love".
i think this was a good wise move by the magazine to pull out its issues.

Bakkouz, nevertheless dude people who insist to get this article published think Jordan is Amman only and they cannot imagine what would happen to 15 up to 90 years old female outside Amman when after reading this article, I guess she'll fart big one and destroy the village :D

SunShine, this was published for barely a day before the magazine was removed from shelves and republished without these articles, so I guess these issues are NO WAY here too.

Bakkouz, I honestly don't think a person can believe in freedom of speech then place conditions and restrictions - you can no longer call it freedom of speech at that time. I personally think these issues could have been tackled in a far more subtle manner, and the packaging of these articles leaves much to be desired, but I would like to have voiced these opinions than have had someone else make them for me, and decide I should not see these articles in the first place.

A certian sector of society reads and even knows of VIVA - a sector that is educated and well-read and perhaps even Westernized to some extent, so there would have been no harm in having them exposed to such issues.

Khalidah, thank you very much for this post and your belief in transparency.

even though that certain sector of society reads and knows about VIVA existence but that doesn't justify exposing such material to public.

This magazine is published in Jordan there fore it's for all Jordanian and Jordaniayat and you cannot publish such article assuming "Certain sector knows and reads".

Jad, so are we supposed to just protect ourselves from subjects that upset it or go against our beliefs?? This is how I see it: these issues are out there. You can't deny it. Should we just ignore it and not think about anything that is against our status quo and pretend it doesn't exist?

Take AIDS in Jordan. It is a huge problem that is acknowledged by very few. No one wants to talk about it. No one is prepared to give shocking statistics. Should we just dust it under the carpet and not raise awareness and not talk about it and discuss solutions?

I don't think that's the right route!

Hal,
No, I'd love to see such topic discussed in schools in all levels as teachers are supposed to know the background of their students so they can tune the dose until they manage to think in the right way when such topic is open on the otherhand discussing such topic in public while most of the public isn't ready to hear isn't the right thing.

Jad, I have read many articles in Arabic magazines like Sayidaty and others talking about this issue and on a wider scale ... they even talked about the transgenders .. so this is not the first time a magazine or a newspaper tackles this issue .. so why is the elite community of Jordan not ready to hear about it? I believe that VIVA has readers from a certain level and I also believe that they are mature and smart enough to understand the objective of choosing and running such articles ..
On another note; if it is still that taboo to talk about homosexuality in our culture .. and maybe for understandable reasons .. why is it taboo to talk about female sexuality?? Aren't women entitled to learn more about this? or is it better that they stay shut down???

Hmmm whats up with all the recent concentration on VIVA magazine?

I personally prefere JO, it has more profound subjects:)

Anyhow, back to the subject. Im alllll for freedom of speech and being open. BUT the question would be is it being open for the sake of openess or is there a certain goal??

I read both articles and to say the least I felt they're trying to make a point of "Normality" of these subjects which they arent. They are Taboos.

The film brokeback mountain is the first movie that is acutally rotating about a "gay" story as a MAIN THEME. Many films had it by the by but this is the first one as a theme.

And about the V subject;personally; I didnt find that it wasnt tackled well, it could have been written more subtly. I felt it also was trying to make this certain statement.

I mean Im stating this through my knowledge of reading other magazinges, foreign ones that is.

At the end I would like to pose a question: Are we trying to "suddenly" open up a society by publishing two articles that "supposidly" will break those Taboos?

I would answer:Things dont work this way.

I don't care about other magazines, I'm talking about magainzed issued from Jordan and yes it's taboos to talk about it especially when it's that open and that sudden
now lets talk ab out the "elite community"
this "elite community" have the right to read about such thing and even practic it without making harm to others and I mean popularity by others or in other words "The none elite community" so in terms of numbers the minority "Elite community" should respect the majory "the none elite community" or since they are minority I'm pretty sure any magazine would not have any problem in delivering it to their homes and they can enjoy reading and practiciing whatever they want.

Jad, when did women sexuality become so taboo?? why shouldn't they learn more about themselves and their bodies ... one of the articles was dedicated for this matter and reading it .. I found it to be informative and quite normal ..

On the other hand, other magazines that tackled these issues are in Arabic language and they reach a lot more people than Amman limits .. and some of these magazines are Jordanian .. I remember reading an interview with a homosexual man in a magazine directed to the youth .. and it was Jordanian .. if only I can remember its name ..

As for delivering magazines to the people .. well .. we cannot change the style that has been used for centuries in this type of publication .. it is a pull type of marketing not a push one .. so if you do not go out and buy the magazine and read it .. you will not get access to the info .. push type is like the ad in the TV .. it comes to you unannounced .. the point is .. it is media .. some issues will be less popular than others .. some will be taboo to some people .. but how would we learn and understand if it was not for people who take this responsibility of providing the info? exactly how informed are we about these things happening under our noses? if i put a blind on my eyes .. does this mean no one can see me???

Khalida,
In the none elite community it has been always taboos and hopefully it
will remain taboos, that was an answer on behalf of the none elite community

now it's your turn to answer on behalf of your elite community or at least your persona

Khalida, please don't move the discussion to where you want it
I'm not against learning more about themselves but I'm against exposing
such topic to the public in such manner and such sudden
hope my first point is clear
I'm all with sex education in school for girls and boys.
A person must know who is s/he and must know how to deal with things at
certain age etc.. and as the teacher supposed to know his student's background
better so I think he'll deliver the message better than exposing such thing
to public to all people from different levels and backgrounds.

finally I DO NOT CARE if there is gays and lesbians clubs in Arabic countries
and so I don't care if some Arabic magazines exposing such topics to public
it's there problem or maybe that what makes them elite

Jad, just on a side note .. I do not belong to the elite Ammani community and I never did .. I live in a city where a girl walking down the street after the sun goes down is considered taboo .. so I know how these people think and believe me .. it is this community that desperately needs education and awareness about these things because they grow up where everything is taboo and not discussed .. so their curious natures drives them to experiment and try for themselves and there lies the danger

Having said that .. the elite community is privileged with more exposure and more awareness about almost everything so it is easier for them to discuss and differentiate right from wrong .. provided they benefited from the privileges they enjoy .. so they will not face so much difficulty in absorbing such issues and discuss them openly .. they read vogue, glamour and cosmopolitan just to name a few .. so what makes the article so taboo is because it was published in a Jordanian magazine?? give me a break please

Why are you against exposing the issue about women sexuality in such a manner? FYI; almost all women are self concious when it comes to this issue and they avoid talking about it even to the closest of relatives or friends .. mothers are the worst possible source of information because they don't accept their daughters to discuss such issues .. so maybe exposing them like that is the best way for these women to get some of their questions answered!

Khalida,
Indeed I agree these people needs such education but not in this way
sounds like we want same thing but in different way and yes this is a problem because in your way when we expose such thing to public a less-educated girl might go further and start enjoying and trusting such magazine until she become Madona!

again why I don't want it to be exposed? because some people doesn't have the right protection which is education.

Jad .. I slightly agree with you .. however; as you can see, VIVA is an English speaking magazine and I don't think that someone without a proper education has access to VIVA or even read it .. so VIVA is not exposing such issues to the community at large .. it is only those who are privileged with education that can comprehend the articles as they were meant ..

Other factors play a role here and it is exactly who reads VIVA? is it the housewife in zarqa? or the teacher in hashmi shamaly .. or executive manager in shmesani .. frankly .. it can be any of those .. so it is not about where they live or what surroundings they have .. it is more about how intellectual they are .. again .. I can be a living example of this .. I come from a family that is conservative .. I live in a very strict culture where everything is taboo .. I do not belong to the elite community in its wide and common definition .. yet I am a reader of VIVA and other magazines and books .. it is not about my parents or where I live or how I live or in what level .. it is about the level of my mind .. so we cannot generalize ..

Khalida,
This is not true, poor, less educated Jordanians in Petra, Aqaba, Wadi rum speaks at least three languages fluently but they are not educated and maybe they've never seen a school and actually I have some relatives and friends of that type.


I'd agree if the topic was about sport, cooking or anything NORMAL so that when the publisher feels that their readers appreciate such topics go further and gives more focus on it but and big BUTT this is so touchy topic to be exposed and make it available for all , it's breaking what we are used to when it's not smooth break.

Jad, all the more reason to expose it and discuss it to verify right practices from wrong ones .. these are the matters that need clarification ... and if we keep the hush hush way of doing things .. we will never ever reach a point where poeple don't practice things out of pure ignorance

This needs to be out once and for all .. it needs to be addressed and discussed .. it needs the informed to transfer the message to the not informed or the misinformed for that matter ... so if parents and family don't talk about it .. schools ignore the subject completely .. culture considers it to be taboo and should remian so .. then how will people learn? on their own or by watching porn or asking "mjarreb"??

Any suggestions?

I'll probably make this a couple of comments, first on the articles and then on the comments to them.

What has been obscured in the discussion over the censorship is just how good the articles are. I'm a bisexual in the States, where, despite the rantings of our own religious people, the whole spectrum of sexual orientation -- or at least this specturm, I'd argue there are others but this isn't the place for that -- is becoming more and more accepted. Yet I have rarely seen articles here that are as brilliantly done as these are.
They are simply human stories about love, about the way people respond to other people. There is the sadness that all of the writers have to feel at the lack of acceptance, but it is the humanity that shines through. I hope these do get widely circulated in Jordan, elsewhere in the Arab world, and in the US as well, simply because the writers do a better job of letting people know how ordinary they are.
They are not weird freaks, nor are they people wrapped in banners of protest. They are simply people, like all of us. People in love, or looking for love, and anyone who can see past the blinders of prejudice, who actually reads the articles -- and I wonder how many of the negative comments did this -- will find their own selves echoed in the writers.
So thank you for putting these up, and I hope everyone who comes to your site, no matter how disturbed they are by the topic, will go ahead and see what the articles actually say. They might not be 'converted' to tolerance, they might still see the writers as damned to hell -- and they have every right to feel this way, as sad as it is that they do -- but they might be at least able to see past the label to the human beings that are gays, lesbians, and bisexuals, and this is at least a start.

Khalidah,
How about sharing us in your learning experience ? How did you learn? which was the most useful source and which was the most awful ? How to make learning process smooth with less curve ?


as for me I've learned in a very smooth way, actually I learned it without noticing it was like growing experience without the need of Viva teacher. I agree it might be much easier for me to learn just because I have the sign of "ehem I'm male" in this society but now I'm waiting to hear your answers because you have the "enthabi waleh" female sign and you live in none elite Ammanie community so please elaborate.

Jad, this is going to be a long answer so get prepared:

Lets put the academic learning aside because this is not the issue here, because if all academically educated people were sophisticated .. then we wouldn't have a problem .. now would we?

Back to my learning experience ..

How did I learn?
Mainly reading .. this was and still is my #1 hobby and source of joy .. I used to read scientific books, novels and almost anything I got my hands on .. sometimes i used to snatch medical journals from my dad's library and try to figure out what they were all about.
I also watched TV extensively; this helped me out a lot in English as a language .. add to that the valuable information I absorbed by religiously watching documentaries since this is all what we had in the pre-satellite channels era .. but they were amazing and did me a lot of good ..

All this exposure enhanced my information and increased my awareness .. add to that my English language which was and still is a passion ..

Home and family were also a source of knowledge although not that great because of all the taboo obstacles .. you can say I was always the one saying what is on everyone's mind!

To be continued ...

Which was the most useful source and which was the most awful?

The best by far is reading .. reading from all sources and opening your mind and using your brain to make sense of what you read .. the more your read the more you have unanswered questions and you seek more .. it is like a chain reaction .. it does not stop and you always have something new to learn and comprehend ..

The worst was friends and family because unless they are reliable to give you correct information from solid base of knowledge .. you will end up with so many misconceptions and conflicting info that most probably is not correct .. because each one gives you his own belief and understanding which might not be the correct one ..

To be continued ...

I was surprised and pleased at the civility of the comments here, even by those who opposed the publishing of the articles. There was none of the loud and vicious condemnation that I frequently see on the topic here.
I want to ask Jad in particular, and you, as well, Khalidah, if you favor the idea of discussing such topics in sex education classes, are you going to discuss the topic in a way that does not make those LGBT students in the classes despise themselves? Are you going to condemn them as 'not normal?' or are you going to tell them truthfully that homosexuality and bisexuality have existed in all ages, and that while they will have to deal with the religious questions raised and their own consciences, the class is educational and not judgmental.
As for the 'I don't care what you do as long as you don't do it where I can see it' group -- and I am not talking about the actual sex act, obviously, but displays of affection, holding hands, kissing. If this is something that bothers you when gay people do it, but NOT when straight people do it -- of course some people are bothered by it either way, and I'm not talking to them -- please take a couple of minutes and seriously ask yourself why you feel this way, and then, if you stil do, please tell us why.

How to make learning process smooth with less curve?

Make learning a lifestyle rather than a method to gain knowledge .. and there lies the difference ..

To explain my point, I quote John Holt who said," Since we cannot know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn out people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able to learn whatever needs to be learned."

so the answer might be in creating the passion of learning inside us rather than forcing us to learn ..

Growing up, and bearing the "enthabi waleh" female sign was very difficult in my environment and every single thing was a struggle .. I was deprived so many things socially and did not live a nice protected childhood .. it was full of obstacles and craziness .. but instead of crying over this fact and accepting to be less just because i am a girl .. I rebelled hard .. I rejected the stereotype of girls that were accepted and embraced in our society .. and I chose to be the damned one .. why? because I refuse to have them put a blind on my eyes and lead me like a sheep .. where I am passed among father, brother, uncles and male cousins of the family .. instead .. I lead the way for females in my family to do something with their lives .. I was the first female in my family to go to university .. first to get a driving lisence .. first to get a car .. first to announce my friendships with male colleagues in university and work .. first to travel alone .. first to live abroad alone .. lots of firsts in my life history .. the point is .. I was able to make a difference for those who followed .. and I am recognized and respected for it .. and proud of it !

So I broke the chains and did not wait for my male custodian to set me free .. I did that on my own and there is a lot more where that came from .. does that answer you

does that answer your questions Jad?

sort of, I'll elaborate when I get back home, get ready for long night, real long one.

I resent this. I am elite and I don't like homesexual subjects being discussed in a normal magazine. You want to discuss it, then discuss it in a special interest magazine or a special interest group.

Shoo today you can't be elite unless you are gay or love gays?

Sorry to be taking up so much room, but I've been told that i sometimes raise so many questions in an individual post that I thought it would make more sense to break my comments up.
I would like to suggest that it might be useful to try thinking about things a slightly different way. (You may reject this, but think about it before you do.)
Rather than people thinking of themselves as 'straight' or 'gay,' I think they actually see themselves as 'not-straight' or 'not-gay.' (The difference is subtle, but important.) In fact, I would argue that we are, in fact, born at least physiologically bisexual -- capable of responding to either sex -- and that we are taught to turn off -- and that we SHOULD turn off -- one of these. We are told "If you like your own sex, then you are only fooling yourself if you think you like the opposite sex." Or vice versa. And it is both society (and religion) but now the gay rights movement that strengthens that message and insists -- falsely, I would argue -- that you 'have to choose one or the other'.

In fact, though, two situations seem to argue the opposite. One is 'situational' homosexuality (probably more a male thing) where a man is temporarily, but for a long time, in an all-male environment -- the classic examples are boarding schools, jails, and the navy (especially when ships toook much longer between landfalls and women weren't allowed on board). In those circumstances they frequently get involved in homosexual relationships -- not just sex, but relationships that have an emotional connotation -- with both partners knowing that the relationship will last only until the end of the situation.

The second is probably more common with women. That they become so turned off by a series of bad experiences with the opposite sex that they turn to their own sex for both emotional and sexual sharing. (I've also noticed, and had the opportunity to 'take advantage of' -- not in the neg

Khalida,
Seems this is going to be kind of serious debate so I would like to know more about your background before proceeding in defence statement (ehem ) :D

do you happen to have bi-sexual preferences ? do you have any lesbo, gay, bi family member?
are you secular or do you believe in connection between religions and our lives?

as for me I'm a straight person with straight family and friends and I'm arguing here to defend straight people rights in reading fine articles without getting exposed to such articles by very very minority in our society, I may say I respect their rights in doing and discussing whatever they want but this should be done in their special interest magazine and places without harming others

Jad ya Jad ..

I took it seriously from the first minute and I am enjoying debating with such an intellectual person as you .. so lets continue by all means .. however, I do not see it as an offense defense kind of debate .. as we both want the same things eventually although using different approaches or methodologies ..

To answer your questions, I am very straight .. to the bone marrow as they say .. and as far as I am aware .. none of my family members or friends have LGBT syndrome if I may call it so ..
I totally believe in religion - culture connection provided that it is applied correctly .. what we see in out community is on either extreme .. when being moderate is all what we need ..

I too am defending straight people rights .. they have the right to know what is going on around them .. it is not right to separate them from the rest or segregate the others and put them in seclusion or quarantine .. whether we like it or not .. they exist .. and more than you think .. and probably in the areas out of Amman more than Amman itself .. so is denying their existense the answer? are we sending the next generations the right messages here? That is what I am arguing ...

Prup (aka Jim Benton) .. regarding your first comment:

It is obvious that my debate with Jad had gotten into more details than what was intended but all for a good cause ..

You are making a point about the content of the articles and how the stories were narrated and what they tell about these individuals and how .. however; this was not one of the reasons I spoke about this issue or posted the articles themselves .. the main reason is that these articles were retracted and blocked after they were published .. just because they have controversial content and I believe that everyone has the right to access this information and then form their own opinion and have their own take on them ... the two articles come with two totally different topics yet both are taboo .. so regardless of what the conroversy is all about ..

Having said that .. I completely understand where you are coming from .. however, we cannot overlook the fact that the issue of LGBT is still a major taboo in our part of the world for religious and cultural considerations .. it is not that they can come out and expect the best .. it is not that simple .. but again .. this is not the issue we are discussing here!

Prup (aka Jim Benton).. regarding your second comment ..

First, you are assuming:
1- We already have sex education classes and all we need to do is introduce more information about LGBT

2- LGBT individuals know that about themselves and have come to terms with it and probably came out of the closet without any consequences

3- Showing affection publicly even for straight people is an OK matter in our part of the world

I have to say that these are wrong assumptions because:

1- We still do not have sex education at schools and we are just starting to demand that more focus should be put on this in our schools .. assuming this happens .. we need to start very light and just educate students about their bodies and right practices when it comes to sex and the misconceptions that come with it by default .. I don't think that we will be introducing any LGBT from a positive aspect because it is not OK religion wise and we are a community that is highly tied to religion!

2- LGBT individuals in our part of the world probably stay in the closet all their lives and they even get married and maybe have families .. yet lead 2 separate lives .. I think that the day when they can speak out is very far ahead if it will ever arrive for the same reason mentioned above .. it is a religiously rejected issue before it is culturaly ..

3- People here do not show affection in public .. straight or otherwise .. and I think that people will be uncomfortable with this either way .. so this is a valid argument if and only if the above issues are applicable

I hope I was able to clarify some of the things that you might be thinking of .. feel free to discuss!

Prup (aka Jim Benton).. regarding your third comment ..

I think there can be a 100 different explanations and/or justifications as to how someone chooses/discovers his/her sexual orientation .. however; this is not the argument of this post .. we are not digging deep in the reasons of people becoming gay, lesbian or bisexual .. as this is something that the individual sorts out internally .. it is the consequences on them as individuals, on their surroundings, on them as parts of the society and on the society itself ..

This can be a wide topic on its own and I think that the space is limited here to talk about it ..

Khalida,
I didn't deny their existense,.all am after is kind of monitored education and you know what this can be through magazine but it has to be monitored and presented in proper way.

I am in full support of tackling issues of homosexuality and virginity loss but to do so with a photo of two gays smiling at you and a set of panties hanging on a wire..well I see this superficial. I have read some through articles on prostitution in Amman in Jordanian magazines and articles and I think they were very good because they showed some restrain in visual design.
Jad, why are you once in Egypt and once in Jordan?

Khalida,
"Solving problems in society always begin with recognizing them and accepting that there is a problem to begin with and getting out of the denial to work on our issues from the roots."

If you're okay with Homosexuality, why would you view it as a 'Problem' from the very first place?

I feel like this argument is going nowhere, why would you insist on arguing without knowing what you're talking about?

Jad, I have to agree with you. The way people are selling out, becoming a trend among the society and claiming it to be 'Transparent' is pretty irritating.

The struggle of such media and people is making no good in the society. I mean, what good can come from talking openly about Homosexuality? Or is it just striving to be like the Western? Why would we be so proud about being a “Westernized Person”?

Why do we look at people who preserve their VALUES, Traditions and Believes as people who are less-brainy, or rather less cool?

I absolutely think THIS IS THE PROBLEM itself, rather than Homosexuality-Articles in some Cosmo-Wannabe magazine.

And A piece of Advice for you Khalidah,
Stop marketing the magazine over your blog. It’s getting old…

omar

Batir,
These couples and the look in their eyes irritates me.
Tedata using Egyption IP class in Jordan and I keep switching between it and wanadoo's wireless
note: never trust web geolocation :D

Omar,
Hala 7aj :D

Omar, exactly where and when did I say that I am okay with homosexuality??

Throughout this whole thing, I have been emphasizing over and over that it is not about the content of the articles as much as it is about censorship .. the argument or debate here drove us to discuss homosexuality, which was not my intention.

Who said we were having a pointless argument? Jad and I basically were having a civilized debate in which we agree on some things and disagree on others and if he or I believed that it was going no where or that we did not know what we were talking about .. we would have stopped it .. that should tell something .. or at least that is how I see it .. I cannot speak for Jad!

About westernized people (which I am not), I went through this with Jad in the comments. You keep forgetting that the articles spoke about another issue as well but you overlooked it completely .. who decides what is ok and what is not? why are you against people getting access to information and making up their own minds about how they feel? This is the main reason we are debating here and it is not homosexuality at all .. please go through the comments again ..

Why are you asking me to stop advertising something on my blog? Apparently I feel that there are good articles that discuss vital issues in our community and they deserve our focus and that is what I am promoting .. sorry if this is becoming "old" for you ...

But why do people always tell me what to and what not to write about on "MY" blog? or is this another form of censorship you are trying to practice on my choices?

Refer to my answers to Prup to see how I feel about homosexuality if you are interested!

Khalidah, I’m fascinated by your Biography, which is been mentioned in this debate. People mostly are just images of their environment even the most intellectual are images of their intellectual environment, rare those such as you having the well, courage, vividness, and vision, to fight against the stream of a dominating culture since birth. All my respect to you, till like forever.

Husams, welcome to my blog and thank you so much for the nice words and lovely comment .. I am both flattered and speechless!

Thanks Khalidah, sure I will be pleasured reading throughout your blog, and posting my opinions sometimes :)

can't read :( i need bigger version thx khalidah

Moey, if you open them in your browser .. you will be able to enlarge them .. please let me know if you could do that ...
Just click on each link and it will open in a browser rather than an image viewing software

How died and made Jad (what's up, Jad?) the spokesperson for what is taboo in Jordanian society?

Hey, here's a novel idea: If you don't like it, DON'T READ IT.

I'm not a fan of The Economist myself, but do you see me clamouring to have the magazine removed from my local newsstands.

Freedom of speech involves responsibility; the responsibility of the reading public to decide FOR ITSELF what it will and will not read and respond to. Jordanians are not children. They should be allowed to make these choices like any other society.

Hmm... That "who" magically turned into a "how." Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet.

Anyway, you get my point. Right?

I'd still like a larger version..

Moey,

You can download a zipped file from the following link and hopefully they will be good enough to read :)

Sorry Moey,

Here is the link
http://www.kmsstore.com/viva.zip

I am from jordan but currently working in Saudi Arabia as a gynecologist, I do hope that you send me the article in email in more clear format as I do like to read about the issue in more details to understand the current mode in Amman, I have been in my work here for more than 10 years and it is helpful to keep updated. Thanks for all and good work.